Nightmare (posted to My Telegraph)

Preamble: the following was conceived on the spur of the moment yesterday evening, written at high speed - approx 45 mins- and posted to My Telegraph under my single username, ColinB.

http://my.telegraph.co.uk/colinb/may_2007/nightmare.htm


It was visible on the Home page for less than an hour, NTS, before being flushed away by the deluge of new submissions. During that brief spell of maximum exposure it managed to attract just one comment (thanks Mark), who awarded it a mark of ? out 10. I deign to mention here the score he gave it.

A hour later I made a few alterations and additions, using MyTel's Edit facility, which may or may not have improved it. What are the ethics of that, I now ask myself ? Would Mark have given the revised version the same score ? Hmmmm. Food for thought. Maybe MyTel needs a facility for editing one's comment (or adding a rider). He could maybe add a second comment, I guess. Comments welcome.


Here, then, is the edited version, entitled NIGHTMARE.


I was walking along Buckingham Palace Rd. for the first time in many years. There had been lots of changes. I passed a handsome arched entrance, behind which, offset asymetrically to the right, was a gleaming modern building. I took a small video clip on my digital camera.




Lots of staff were going in and out through those arches, checking their watches, speaking into their mobiles, then making that sharp right turn into the new wing .

Yes, you guessed it. You're looking at the Daily Telegraph's new HQ . The paper spent years languishing in the Docklands while scouring Central London for a suitable building whose architecture would deny its staff any left-wing views.

As I walked on, I suddenly began to lose my bearings. First, the street name changed abruptly to Richmond Avenue. My confusion and disorientation became complete when further along it became Higgis's Way.

I was then amazed to find myself looking at a perfect replica of Buckingham Palace, but over the huge ornamental gate was a wrought iron sign reading "Blog Central". I heard someone say it had previously been known as Buck House.

Here's my second video clip, in which I'm heard to say "now there's a splendid residence". That was before I knew it had changed hands.





I then entered an avenue lined with dead trees and quickly overtook a party of Chinese tourists, doing the Serpentine tour. Something had been lost in translation, methinks, judging by their determined snake-like progress up the street, weaving around lamposts and other street furniture, with self-conscious grins on their faces, and passers by all shaking their heads in wonder. I heard one of them mutter "I can see now why it was called the Long March."

The group was being escorted by a silver-haired gent, staring in disbelief at the antics going on behind him. He had a Telegraph name badge, and was sporting an RAF tie. "The dead trees were intentional," I heard him say, "being symbolic of a previous era. Now PLEASE I ask you again, walk in a STRAIGHT line. STRAIGHT ".

I then heard him ask if anyone had with them an English-Mandarin phrase book. Everyone shook their heads, bar one who said in halting English "No Mr. Slogum, but I have other little red book here in Mandarin. That help you yes ?"


Finally I came to a vast green area. Above the entrance, manned by security guards, was a sign reading "My Soapbox Inc". As I was being checked in, a cheerful bespectacled lady stepped forward. "Would l care for a chocolate ?" she asked. I and some others were then led off in the direction of Old Speakers' Corner. The nice lady led the way, with her Scotty dog on a lead.


It was a long walk, during which we passed ( I kid thee not) thousands upon thousands of soapboxes, all neatly set out. Around each was a cluster of people, all in earnest debate. Some were applauding the speaker, while others, sad to say, were getting a bit hot under the collar, wagging and pointing their fingers, with a few hurling abuse and insults.

An attractive young blonde with a Welsh accent was rushing around, telling certain people to turn down the volume of their megaphones.

We finally arrived somewhat footsore and deafened, at Old Speakers Corner , where we were shown a few chained-off soapboxes - the originals we were told- with Tussauds waxworks of the great names of a bygone age.

There was also an artistic tableau of Richard Coeur d'Orléans at fisticuffs with an irate John Bull, whose bowler hat had been knocked askew. I was pleased to see that the pigeons preferred to perch on Richard.

Suddenly there was the sound of an emergency vehicle, with an old fashioned bell. How could that be, I wondered ? Bells were replaced with sirens a long, long time ago.

The sound of the bell got louder, and louder, and louder. Suddenly a voice broke in.
"Do stop snoring dear, and switch off that damned alarm clock ! ".

"My Telegraph": first impressions from a volunteer guinea pig

**

The Daily Telegraph is presently in the final stages of testing what it calls "My Telegraph".

Speaking as one of the "guinea pigs" invited to give it a try ( as a result of attending the Blogger's Open House), and to help reveal unforseen bugs in the software , I would describe it as follows in broad brush terms.

Think of it as a kind of halfway house between being a personal blogger, as I am here, talking about the things that interest one, and being an invited blogger on the Telegraph, where the idea is (arguably) to draw responses from the general readership.

In other words, you sign up as a My Telegraph blogger, and you compose and submit blog posts that then appear in time sequence on "My Telegraph".

Beneath your blog, not surprisingly, is a Comments section, similar to the one on main blogs, where folk respond to your tame or outrageous opinions.

But there's a sting in the tail, from which the Telegraph's own journalist bloggers have been spared. It's a faint echo of "Come Dancing" where you are judged on your performance, in the form of two keys : a green button for YES ("I agree wholeheartedly with what you say") , and a red button that says in effect " NO, your views are a real turn-off, don't give up the day job."

In time, an approval/disapproval rating builds up against each of your blog posts.

Sounds awful, wouldn't you say, at first sight, and I expressed my misgivings when Shane Richmond first hinted it at what was in store, and I put his template under the microscope, to have worst misgivings confirmed.

But I refrained from condemning it out of hand, and on reflection,, I 'm maybe glad now that I reserved judgement.

Why ? Well, I have already put up some 5 or 6 posts on the pilot run (sorry, you cannot see them yet). Some have attracted comments, others have not.

It's early days, granted, but over a period of time the feedback, positive or negative, should give one a feel for the things that strike a chord with others, and those which might best be described as personal idiosyncracies.

Speaking as someone who has been at the chalkface of UK and West African secondary schools ("UK sink schools" through bog-standard comp' s to over-subscribed independents) : never knock feedback, from whatever quarter it comes.

As a previous Headmaster at Accra Academy ( Mr. J.K. Okine, himself an ex-pupil of the school) once put it so succinctly at a staff meeting, in reference to those whingeing pupils: "They see us as we really are".

Wise words indeed.

Comments invited (email only) : sciencebod01@aol.com

Telegraph Bloggers' Open House

Updated Sunday 15th April 21:50 There was a link on Shane Richmond's blog to one Robin Hamman. He's a BBC man with an impressive cv in internet involvement that goes way back to the mid 80s. I posted some comments today on Robin's blog that got us talking about the pros and cons of the Bloggers' evening.

Robin was impressed by the open plan, hi-tech newsroom. So was I, but less so with being whizzed through, and not seeing what was happening at one or more of the scores of work stations. Naturally the journalists were preoccupied with putting the paper to bed, but there was an all-too-apparent resentment at our intrusion on their territory. I contrasted this with the reception that Jane, I and fellow Antiboulenc Association members received when we visited the HQ of Nice-Matin, our regional newspaper, early in February. Here's a video clip: in it, a sub-editor explains the final tweaking of front page layout.

Updated Saturday 18:10 French time: This "thank you" letter went off to Shane Richmond's Telegraph blog. It has just appeared in the latest crop of comments.

"That's an inspired choice of location, Shane, for the Telegraph's new HQ, right next door to Victoria Station.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwCuvwytyAs

And here's a clip of you answering a question about your moderation policies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj_-njGOE5o

As you say, there were a lot of media professionals there, so that commentors and/or personal bloggers like Ped, Martin and myself were not only heavily outnumbered, but felt a bit like garden gnomes on occasions - attracting the odd one or two bemused expressions.

Maybe you should consider some colour-coded name badges next time, so that birds of a feather can locate each other more readily. And while there are issues of commercial confidentiality, I would have liked to hear more about viewing statistics: what proportion of visitors coming to the online Telegraph log onto blogs, how many blogs posts do they read, and the relationship, if any, between the number of hits and the typical number of comments ? It's a blokish thing - lists, tables, pie charts etc.

But it was interesting and valuable, nonethethless, to see you, Ceri Radford, Ian Douglas and so many of your other blogging colleagues on your home ground. Thanks to you all for giving up your time.

Thanks too for the hospitality. While lacking in the social lubricant department (company policy I gather) your caterers certainly titillated the taste buds. Thanks also for being so tolerant of our intrusive cameras - although one could see that some of your people in the newsroom are still not comfortable having lenses pointed at THEM. Think of it as poetic justice !"

Oops: I discover that I have omitted to mention Simon Dickson as a fellow commentor - someone who cames across on Thursday evening as a thinker and effective speaker. He considers that regular commenters should be given a personal portfolio in which all their comments are stored. Sounds like a good idea to this garden gnome.

But he hints that Shane Richmond's plans for a revamp (all hush hush for now) may include something along the same lines. We live in exciting times, as the barriers separating the pros from us amateurs become breached.

The Telly's recruitment of guest bloggers from "Your View" (Simon Coulter, David Llewellyn, Phil Slocombe) was a defining moment in that regard. That initiative did not get a mention, incidentally, at least not while I was in the main venue ( but might have been when I was away doing the tour of the newsroom ). I chose not to raise it, for fear that it would be interpreted as angling for consideration myself.

But contrary to what some might think, it's not something that bothers me right now. Certainly I would not wish to be producing blog posts on an industrial scale, and would be reluctant for friends and family to read them if they were to attract the kind of comments that have been attached to Phil Slocombe's. Our friend Richard of Orléans has been particularly uncharitable in that respect, which won't come as a surprise to many. One wonders if that is why we are seeing fewer posts from Phil S in recent days - one suspects that the fun's gone out of it for him when he sees himself vilified not just for what he says, but for who he is, in this case an ex-serviceman (RAF) and proud of it.

Folk who visit my blog regularly will know my views on petty sniping, targetting and harassment, which is something the blogosphere needs to address and deal with, but cannot while it gets confused with issues of free speech.

Updated Saturday 10:10 French time. Here's a video clip with sound track of me and traffic outside the Telegraph's HQ . It's handily situated for those who have just come in from Gatwick, seeing as how it's right next door to Victoria mainline station !

Friday 12 th April

Yesterday, as some of you know, I attended the Telegraph's Bloggers' Open House, held at their Victoria HQ.

Shane Richmond, the host, has already posted. I'm naturally flattered to be mentioned by name, although I only spoke to Shane briefly. He was surrounded most of the time by what he refers to as "media types", so this humble commenter, way down the food chain, thought it best not to intrude.

In fact it was not till things were winding up, and the agency caterers were beginning to check their watches that I said to fellow "commenter" Ped that there was a tricky social duty to perform: how to say goodbye to one's host without having said hello ?

Ped solved in true military fashion (that being his background) by staging a frontal assault on Shane's little circle, and saying there was someone who wanted to introduce himself. The conversation was brief, mainly about Shane's spoof post that had us all (briefly) fooled. Later there was a quick pint down the local with Ceri Radford and Ian Douglas, both of them charming company (and one them very good looking). It's pronounced "Kerry" by the way, as I discovered early on, she being a Welsh lass.

Thus ends the first instalment. I have just uploaded the first video clip to YouTube. It's one of Shane answering a question from the floor about moderation policy, so you will need your speakers turned on. At one point the camera ( a miniature one in video mode, needless to say, not a proper camcorder) pans round to a guy with light coloured suit sitting next to the aisle. Sadly it took most of the evening to establish who he was (Ped) , and that he, Martin and myself were probably the only commenters present.

Martin and I are sitting together in the centre of the snapshot on Shane's post. I'm the one with silver hair, specs and permatan, hand on chin.

Suggestion to SR: next time get us minority commenters to identify ourselves, so we can form a little club of kindred spirits over the canapés, once the formal bit is over. But I'm glad I was there, for a number of reasons (about which more later).

Next instalment: probably about 10pm French time, if I don't fall asleep first (had to be up at 4am this morning to get the first flight back from Gatwick). Beware the so-called "courtesy coaches" that shuttle back and forth between Gatwick and the local hotels. They are bad for the blood pressure. More on that later.

ed: back sooner than expected. There's a new post from Ben Fenton just appeared, with a close -up of the audience. Ped's the one in the red tie. Ped warned YsT about not over-reacting to a CYKW. He told me once, and then, just in case I'd missed the message, he told me a second time, and then, during our brief encounter with SR, a third time, and, if I'm not mistaken, it kind of crept back into the conversation a fourth time. The phrase "message received" could be heard to be uttered at least twice last night.

Update: Thursday 21:20 If there were such a thing as a 12th commandment , it would be: never let yourself be distracted from the main point ( and never type too fast into Blogger's flaky text-entry software, unless you want your text to jump somewhere totally unexpected, like the "Link" box beneath one's chosen Title, I kid thee not).

But a thread opened earlier today on Peter Foster's "India" post which I recommend everyone to read. Putting Brit cynicism aside, be prepared please to make a gesture, no matter how small. Maybe the guy's a dreamer, but as the lady in South Pacific said: " If you don't have a dream, how you gonna have a dream come true ? "

See original mission statement of "Dreams and Daemons" ' (buried back deep in the archives).

Comments welcome (provided they don't try to equate me with Attila the Hun, the Devil Incarnate, President Aminadinnerjacket, Your Typical Brit, Gordon Brown etc) : sciencebod01@aol.com

Blogospheric tactics for beginners

LESSON 7 : Trolls, Clones and Innocent passers-by

Having mastered the first 6 lessons, you should by now be finding your feet, and applying some of those techniques you have recently acquired.

And what is the main point we have stressed repeatedly ?

Yes, it's that PASSIVITY is always perceived as a sign of weakness.

In the Brave New World of the blogosphere, the only thing that counts is ASSERTIVENESS, allied ideally to total TRANSPARENCY.

But sometimes, as we have said, there is no choice but to go over, if not quite to the Dark Side, at least into shady territory.

Today's Lesson, Number 7 in the series, takes the form of a case history, and it's drawn from a recent MSM duel.

It was a Telegraph blog, in which Shane Richmond invited readers to meet him on his own ground (now there's one adventurous soul ! ) . Sadly, that fine gesture on his part brought out both the best and worst in the small blogging community that logs on to his site.

There were 16 comments in all. The entire thread is reproduced below ( I trust that's OK with you Shane: I didn't consider it necessary, or prudent, to consult, maybe for obvious reasons).

Here's what you have to do:

1. Identify the troll
2. Identify the target
3. Identify the clones. How many are there ?

"Hold on a minute", I hear you say." Who or what are "clones" ? Have I missed something ? I don't recall hearing "clones" mentioned before on this course. "

Correct, dear student, but common sense should tell you what that term "clone" refers to in the present context.

Why do you think clones were deployed in this thread. In other words, what was their intended role, and was their intended purpose achieved ?

What are your feelings about the ethics of (a) the trolling (b) the cloning ?

Comments invited, but regrettably by emails only ( a defence against those trolls ....)


sciencebod01@aol.com


Here then are the comments posted to Shane's post:

Look forward to meeting you
Nice one, Shane. I must hand it to you folk at the Telly - when it comes to the human touch you are streets ahead of the competition.I went to a similar hospitality "do" quite recently at the headquarters of Nice Matin, on the outskirts of (not surprsingly) Nice. That was most interesting - I've been meaning to post my video, complete with noisy soundtrack, but with my own modest blog in semi-hibernation mode, I have not got round to doing so yet.Have just this minute booked my flights - in on the 12th, back the next day. I look forward to meeting you and your splendid team. PLEASE don't change your mind .....Colin Berry (Antibes, France) at 14 Mar 2007 15:39

Look forward to meeting you (ii)
I'm definitely up for this.I would have been suggesting it myself 'ere long.
Sally Crawford at 14 Mar 2007 17:05

Look forward to meeting you (iia)
PS: art, art music and art literature would be my choice of blog topic/blogger; I get enough politics with my day job.
Sally Crawford at 14 Mar 2007 17:44

fly them in
At present this looks like being a pretty select party. However, if Daniel Hannan were there to kick-off proceedings and wind us all up with a brief Euro-homily, Catherine Elsworth and Bryony Gordon to bring a bit of chat and charm, Mick Cleary to buy those drinks he's been promising, and Toby Howse to generally raise the tone, I'd be delighted to accept.
Roger Goodacre at 15 Mar 2007 10:08

I wish I could fly them in!
Hi Roger,It won't be all that select - most people are emailing me their response, rather than leaving them in the comments. So far 15 people have said they'll come and eight Telegraph bloggers have confirmed that they will be there.I'll try to get Mr Hannan along - however he's in Brussels most of the time. Likewise Catherine Elsworth - I don't think the foreign desk will take too kindly to me taking one of their correspondents away from their post...I'll ask Bryony and Mick, though. But, as for your last request, are you after Toby Harnden or Christopher Howse?Shane Richmond at 15 Mar 2007 10:46

Christoby Howden
Sorry, a slip of the pen - both would be welcome, Christopher Howse was the intended, and I guess he might come cheaper (from his photo, I have to say he looks like a Toby though).. Disappointed to hear it won't after all be select.
Roger Goodacre at 15 Mar 2007 11:26

I'll see what I can do
Toby is unlikely - for the same reasons as Catherine. Though if this becomes a regular event I'll schedule future ones so that we can catch foreign correspondents on their occasional visits to home base.I'll speak to Christopher.It may be a juggling act to ensure that numbers are small enough for the event to be intimate but large enough that everyone who wants to attend can get in.I may cap the numbers at around 30, plus ten Telegraph staffers. That should be a decent size.Still, we haven't reached 30 yet so perhaps I won't have to cap at all.So can we expect to see you on April 12, Roger?
Shane Richmond at 15 Mar 2007 11:33

I will look in my diary.
Sounds like a better class of party. I am too old for fighting but whilst the youngsters grapple with each other over the hand, and possible other parts, of Bryony, Richard of Orleans and I could prop up the bar (there will be one won't they)and empty Mick's pockets in the process whilst solving the Anglo/French/Irish problems once and for all.It would be interesting to compare the photos with the flesh so to speak and I might find the moderator who objects to my light hearted banter about the Scots. (I love them dearly, I just have an unusual way of expressing it). Can't promise anything but I will see what I can do, unless I get death threats, in that case I will definitely turn up.
ped at 15 Mar 2007 11:41

I am skipping 'Growing tips for plants' at the YWCA for this gig
And Shane, if I may,You will try, won't you, to mix the genders (although please do not feel the need to exert yourself TOO much).But, as I see from the above, males would appear to be preponderant (I use the word advisedly). Fine. Please ask Mr Leith and Mr Toronyi-Lalic to attend.Actually, I could now skip out of the meeting with the 30 readers because I have already had the thought that perhaps the one way that journos can make their blogs different to those of the rest of us is to take the bold step of interacting with their readers.And you're already there.:))But I don't think I could bear not to meet ped, Richard of Orleans et al.
Sally Crawford at 15 Mar 2007 20:41

CO2 neutral
Shane, your meeting is a nice idea. I just have one concern. In these green times I believe this type of meeting should be as CO2 neutral as possible. Excessive and unreasonable travel should be avoided. I suggest you limit your invitation to those people who live in a 1000 km radius of London. People beyond this limit who really want to attend could come on a bicycle or in a rowing boat. Alternatively take a one way ticket only
richard of orléans at 16 Mar 2007 05:57

Health warning
Would it not be a good idea for "Richard of Orleans" to label his posts so we know what is intended, eg "This one is to reveal my ignorance of the facts" or "This one is just anti-Brit" or "This one is meant to be funny" ?
Tony S at 16 Mar 2007 10:56

It's a little bit funny
One has to suppose that the "joke" is at the expense of the guy who's flying in. If that be the case, then its presumably an in-joke between a couple of internet buddies. If it's not, then it's no joking matter at all. It's what we here (USA) call internet stalking.
geejay at 17 Mar 2007 03:02

Helpful Suggestion
As you are aware the lottery will no longer be paying out any prizes since all funds are needed for the financing of the Olympic Games. In Coe and Jowell’s finely tuned budget this hiatus is not expected to have any impact on the revenue generated from the patriotic Brits who are eager to contribute to this prestige project. However just in case some of the more money pinching souls are tempted to reduce outgoings, might I suggest that you offer tickets to Shane’s blog meetings as an alternative reward.
Richard of Orléans at 17 Mar 2007 07:29

It's that man again
Now that's a real brain-teaser you have given us there, "Richard of Orleans", where the filecard index is concerned (see MY helpful suggestion).The first sentence is definitely Category 1 - ignorance of the facts. It's not the Lottery prize fund that's to be raided, it's the grants to good causes, something entirely different. The final sentence is pretty opaque too, except the last bit. Yep, I'm all in favour of free tickets to Shane's shindig. Provided it's restricted to those who can write the Queen's English.
Tony S at 17 Mar 2007 13:14

Take it as read
Why would no one take it (CO2 neutral comment) as a serious relexion that we shouldn't be polluting our surroundings with CO2 and noise for the sake of non essential meetings?Or has environmentalism now become "stalking", to our rather heavily polluting American co-inhabitants of planet earth?
Richard of Orléans at 18 Mar 2007 14:55

"Richard of Orléans"
Anyone still reading this thread, Shane, whose eyes are not completely glazed over by now, may be wondering what on earth "Richard of Orléans" is blathering about (see "CO2 neutral" etc). Well, it's certainly not a genuine concern for the environment, as "geejay" above has correctly surmised, despite Richard's solemn assurances. It is in fact a case of "Richard of Orléans" using your post as an opportunity to snipe at someone he regards as the arch enemy. Now why would he do that, you may ask ? It's for a number of reasons, but mainly for my having had the temerity in the past to challenge his oft-stated anglophobic views - despite his being a UK national himself, a long-term resident in France (although still unnaturalized) - and for my having the effrontery to retire to France, which he considers "sponging".Here's a comment he posted yesterday to Louise's "Chocolates and Cuckoos" blog (see link below) which should leave readers in no doubt as to this man's true agenda:https://www2.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=37839278&postID=691498354887055363

"Colinb for me is the quintessential Englishman: free speech if you say the right thing, democracy if you vote for him, free trade as long as you buy his goods, fair play provided he wins, justice subject to him writing the laws as well as being judge and jury. There is an island set aside for people like him, he should go there." 3/17/2007 5:12 PM

Note in particular the final sentence, which ties in with his reference above to that "one-way ticket". He expects me, it would seem, to sell up, and return to the UK, because I and fellow retired Brits are deemed to be economically non-productive (despite spending freely on a multitude of French goods and services, and paying an assortment of taxes etc). The fact that I'm legally resident under EU and UK rules appears to cut little ice with this self-appointed defender of the French national interest, as seen through the prism of Orléans. I don't know about you Shane, but Richard of Orléans would appear to me guilty of at least a degree of self-indulgence in his questionable use a Telegraph blog to grind his particular axe. But then, you know this guy's modus operandi: he's almost an institution on Telegraph blogs, but may still have newcomers shaking or scratching their heads. Some might consider this man to have a confounded cheek, obsession even, to be pursuing one particular UK expatriate in particular, especially as he hides behind a pseudonym, while I use my real name. Perhaps we could discuss the issue of problematical posters such as Richard of Orléans when we meet next month.
Colin Berry at 18 Mar 2007 18:35

New era: post-sabbatical, post-humanist

Updated: Monday 19th March Watch this space (having problems with Blogger !!!)


Even a blog in meltdown mode needs a new posting from time to time. In fact some might question whether this semi-abandoned shell still qualifies as a blog, given that the facility for leaving a comment has been withdrawn.

But as indicated, comments are one thing. It's the graffiti that I object to, and in my new post-humanist Mr. Not Nice mode I am frankly not too bothered whether my recent decisions represent the greatest good for the greatest number. That's another principle I've abandoned - from now on, what matters is peace of mind, and a measure of protection for me and my remaining readership from the world's growing population of scumbags, now empowered by the internet to exorcise their demons on a largely defenceless blogosphere.

Speaking of which, I mentioned earlier Shane Richmond's invite to an Open Day (well, evening) at the Telegraph HQ in Victoria. I responded eagerly, getting in the first comment. Later in the thread, who should appear but none other than Richard of Orléans.

To save you going to the link, I have cut-and-pasted my comment and R of O's.

Read them if you have time, especially the second.


Look forward to meeting you

Nice one, Shane. I must hand it to you folk at the Telly - when it comes to the human touch you are streets ahead of the competition.I went to a similar hospitality "do" quite recently at the headquarters of Nice Matin, on the outskirts of (not surprsingly) Nice. That was most interesting - I've been meaning to post my video, complete with noisy soundtrack, but with my own modest blog in semi-hibernation mode, I have not got round to doing so yet. Have just this minute booked my flights - in on the 12th, back the next day. I look forward to meeting you and your splendid team. PLEASE don't change your mind .....

Colin Berry (Antibes, France) at 14 Mar 2007 15:39



CO2 neutral

Shane, your meeting is a nice idea. I just have one concern. In these green times I believe this type of meeting should be as CO2 neutral as possible. Excessive and unreasonable travel should be avoided. I suggest you limit your invitation to those people who live in a 1000 km radius of London. People beyond this limit who really want to attend could come on a bicycle or in a rowing boat. Alternatively take a one way ticket only

Richard of Orléans at 16 Mar 05:57




The question in my mind is this: was the Telegraph right to publish R of O's comment, given that it addressed no issues, and was intended purely as a snipe at a particular expatriate Brit (guess who ?) flying in from a distance of 1000km or greater ( carefully chosen to include Antibes, but exclude Orléans).


There was some later discussion on the thread as to whether Rof O's comment was a good joke. Any views ? If so, emails are invited.


sciencebod01@aol.com


Please indicate whether you are happy for some, or all, your comments to be reproduced here.


First comment (from Louise)

I'm sorry, Colin, but Richard's comment on Shane's blog made me laugh - not about you, just that he manages to whizz in with a few choice words and gets everyone in a flap!'We' know that he was having a prod at you, but Shane is not involved in our blog baiting, so there is no reason why Richard's remark was not published.You can publish this if you wish. Louise


Thank you for the prompt reply, Louise. I have a "post-humanist" response to that which I would not have dared to express in the old era, but will say nothing for now. Any other opinions ?

Update: Sunday 15:45

I'll wait till tomorrow am to see if there are any further comments, and then respond to Louise's comments.

As said earlier, this "blog" is in meltdown, and still in a state of flux as to future shape or direction . When Louise sent her comment which not surprisingly meets all conceivable criteria for acceptability, it was inserted, as you can see, into the body of this post, instead of going to the usual Comments section. I'm obviously aware of a practical problem here - that it's harder to see if one's comment has been used if there's no Comments section.

But then I got to thinking about Comments sections in general, and the way that they can become the tail that wags the dog. No disrepect to Colin Randall, but did he really intend his Telegraph blog to become a chat-room ? Ceri Radford once hinted that it was not how the Telegraph had really intended things to be ( and I can't but help wonder if the new model was not deliberately designed to prevent a recurrence, and to inhibit cliques such as "ours" from taking over the Telly's blogs, given that blog postings now have a very short shelf life - a few days at most).

It's not so long ago that I had to endure Bill Taylor's taunts that Dreams and Daemons was not attracting as many comments as Louise's blog. He said I must be "eating my heart out" as a consequence. My thoughts at the time were unprintable, and still are, where that man and his cheap shots are concerned. Suffice it to say that Louise has herself said there is little or no pleasure to be had from a 100 comments if they are the result of undignified dogfights, to which I confess having contributed to most. But in my defence, it's usually through trying to defend oneself against the kind of baiting that I had from BT and R of O.

But that's now a thing of the past. I've abandoned personal blogging because I'm sick of the baiting, the wind-ups, the questioning of my right to be living in France etc etc. I blog to discuss ideas and issues, with the possibility of a meeting of minds. Which is why the present experiment with emails instead will continue for a while. You see, what I'm doing here is defending the primacy (?) of the blogger's post, and his prerogative to decide what does and does not appear on his blog. At present, a Comments section may run for days, and acquire a life of its own, which may or may not be a healthy thing. But in this model, I'm free to say at any time, "Thank you for your emails. That's enough on that topic. Some have appeared in the body of the post, some maybe I've held back for one reason or another, not to suppress free-speech, but to keep a topic focused and on-track."

Because that is how I see my Mark 2 blog : I'd rather have a good one-to-one with someone who is interesting and well-disposed towards me personally, even if we disagree on a particular issue, than leave a vacant noticeboard on which any passing scoundrel can scrawl their graffiti, and then accuse me of being Hitler if I dare to delete it.

Why make oneself a slave to Blogger's software package? Why not tweak it, customise it, until (to use that hackneyed phrase) it's "fit for purpose" where it is we, the individual blogger, who defines the purpose of our blog, and the niche it's intended to occupy in the blogosphere ? My blog was not designed as a fireside rug on which rottweilers curl up, and wait for ladies to come and make a fuss of them.

To be continued.......

Update Sunday 19:45

Richard of Orléans has just posted again to Shane Richmond's blog ( inviting us to see the Tell's HQ next month):


Title : Take it as read

"Why would no one take it (CO2 neutral comment) as a serious relexion that we shouldn't be polluting our surroundings with CO2 and noise for the sake of non essential meetings?Or has environmentalism now become "stalking", to our rather heavily polluting American co-inhabitants of planet earth?"

Richard of Orléans at 18 Mar 2007 14:55

I have just sent off this reply. It remains to be seen whether the Telegraph will allow it. We shall see.

"Anyone still reading this thread, Shane, whose eyes are not completely glazed over by now, may be wondering what on earth "Richard of Orléans" is blathering about (see "CO2 neutral" etc).

Well, it's certainly not a genuine concern for the environment, as "geejay" above has correctly surmised, despite Richard's solemn assurances. It is in fact a case of "Richard of Orléans" using your post as an opportunity to snipe at someone he regards as the arch enemy.

Now why would he do that, you may ask ? It's for a number of reasons, but mainly for my having had the temerity in the past to challenge his oft-stated anglophobic views - despite his being a UK national himself, a long-term resident in France (although still unnaturalized) - and for my having the effrontery to retire to France, which he considers "sponging".

Here's a comment he posted yesterday to Louise's "Chocolates and Cuckoos" blog (see link below) which should leave readers in no doubt as to this man's true agenda:

https://www2.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=37839278&postID=691498354887055363

"Colinb for me is the quintessential Englishman: free speech if you say the right thing, democracy if you vote for him, free trade as long as you buy his goods, fair play provided he wins, justice subject to him writing the laws as well as being judge and jury.

There is an island set aside for people like him, he should go there."

3/17/2007 5:12 PM

Note in particular the final sentence, which ties in with his reference above to that "one-way ticket". He expects me, it would seem, to sell up, and return to the UK, because I and fellow retired Brits are deemed to be economically non-productive (despite spending freely on a multitude of French goods and services, and paying an assortment of taxes etc). The fact that I'm legally resident under EU and UK rules appears to cut little ice with this self-appointed defender of the French national interest, as seen through the prism of Orléans. I don't know about you Shane, but Richard of Orléans would appear to me guilty of at least a degree of self-indulgence in his questionable use a Telegraph blog to grind his particular axe. But then, you know this guy's modus operandi: he's almost an institution on Telegraph blogs, but may still have newcomers shaking or scratching their heads.

Some might consider this man to have a confounded cheek, obsession even, to be pursuing one particular UK expatriate in particular, especially as he hides behind a pseudonym, while I use my real name.

Perhaps we could discuss the issue of problematical posters such as Richard of Orléans when we meet next month. "

Telegraph pulls Toby Harnden blog

ed April 11th 2007 : scroll down to brown font to read the comments placed on Toby Harnden's "Hoodgate" blog post



Update:Sunday 14 Jan Dreams and Daemons has been described by Suw Charman on her Corante site as the blog "the Telegraph does not want you to read". Her remit for that highly-ranked blog of hers: "Picking out the patterns from the chaos that is the blogosphere" .

ed. Oops. One has overlooked Corante's co-author, Kevin Anderson, featured lower down the home page, who is described as the Guardian's blog editor. Thought I to ought mention that, since I had already decided to do a "Be nice to the Guardian week" (having dipped a toe in its blogging waters recently, and been pleasantly surprised) .

But before readers assume that I have been frozen out of a favourite (if currently problematical) haunt, see Shane Richmond's most recent post to his Telegraph blog. There you will find a friendly difference of opinion between the two of us on the matter of IT jargon, with welcome reinforcement coming from none other than Sarah Hague. The matter of creeping jargon-blight had been raised by me earlier with Ceri Radford, the Telly's literary aficionado whose day job is acting as Chief Moderator on readers' comments. Poor kid.

Re jargon, congratulations are in order for Blogger, our host, for this message that one sees when logging on:

"We're already moving some lucky people, but you can cut the line and switch now".

Although clearly written by someone in California (please, can someone explain to this Brit what's meant by "cut the line" ?) note that he or she was content to use the simple "moving".

Not so the geeks who supply the Telegraph's IT software, who currently inflict this monstrosity upon anyone who still tries accessing Toby Harnden's now-withdrawn Saddam execution blog post (see below):

"We have recently migrated some content over from an old blogging engine, so it's possible that we haven't migrated the item you were looking for."

Ouch !

Update: Saturday 13 Jan There's a must-see article in today's Guardian, entitled "Telegraph gets tough with bloggers" That's a reference to the Telegraph's own bloggers, needless to say.

Shane Richmond, the online News Editor, has been reading the riot act to his team of bloggers (some 38 at the last count), warning them against getting too matey with the likes of us, or revealing too much about journalistic "tricks of the trade". Now who did he have in mind, one wonders ? Toby, or not Toby ? That is the question.


Update: 19:50 London time. Hello. This will be the fourth or fifth time today that I have tried to update this report. Every attempt so far has been frustrated by Blogger's buggy software that throws up supposed faults in the html code when I try to publish (after, say, 20 minutes of editing or more), meaning I have to abort and lose the lot. So this is entered now as plain text, not formatting as bold, or italics, or coloured font, purely to see if this time it's accepted. Even as I type, text is inserting into previous sentences and paragraphs. Is this really the 21st century ? If so, bring back yesterday , and my Amstrad 1512 with its Edline text editor. Anyway, I shall stop here, now things are quietening down (traffic from OrganGrinder on the Guardian) with this simple addition, and see if it "sends" without suffering sensory overload or going into a big sulk. If it does, I'll return later with a backlog of updates.

Come back, Alan Sugar. All is forgiven (especially as I've just had to delete/paste your surname from the end of the sentence to its proper position). Is it just me, or is everything just ..... ? (just had to relocate that question mark as well...)


NB This blog post has now been reorganized to make it more user-friendly. Toby Harnden's comments now come first, followed by the first 35 or so comments, when I then stopped saving. These are followed by 4 of my own comments, sent after I had stopped saving everything that appeared.

For a complete transcript of the blog post, go to OrganGrinder (see Links in margin), which appeared the following day. In fact Handyblogman kindly gave "Dreams and Daemons" first refusal, which was politely declined, for fear of making this post unwieldy, although there were other considerations that need not bother us now.

************************************************************************************

Want to know what Toby Harnden said in his withdrawn blog, and some of the initial reader reaction ?

Start here, but it may be disjointed in parts, or repetitious, as a result of first recording events as they happened, and then ( hurriedly) re-organizing in logical time-sequence.






20:55 Thursday The graphic at the top of this post shows what was visible on our screens just 45 minutes ago. It was the opening of Toby Harnden's latest blog for the Daily Telegraph. It then suddenly disappeared, without any word of explanation, having accrued some 84 Comments, most of them irate. It would appear that the Telegraph has pulled it, perhaps on the advice of its lawyers, given the acrimony and accusations of impropriety and professional malpractice flying back and forth.




Here is Toby Harnden's now-withdrawn blog post :

"So there I was the other morning, checking my Inbox. Amongst the offers of cheap Viagra and financial deals with dodgy Nigerians nestled an email from a dear reader, offering a remark about my work. That's the thing about this brave new world. Want to say what you think? Post a comment below. Reach me direct? Click on that email address over there to the right. Feeling forward? Call me on my mobile. Hey, the number's out there. "An appalling s*** of a man", read the subject line of the message. A verdict on George W. Bush or Donald Rumsfeld? An epitaph for Saddam Hussein, or John Kerry's career? No, apparently this was a reference to me. "Harnden - you were a total c*** in the Royal Navy, and you continue to be one even today," the email went on - and I quote verbatim, apart from the asterisks, misspellings and all. "How on earth you ever were accepted by the Telegraph as an alleged 'journalist', the Lord only knows." "Your piece on Saddam Hussein's execution (full of inaccuracies and made-up background) had me and my colleagues chortling for hours. No wonder the foregn desk pulled the piece shortly after its appearance. "Why don't you take up window-cleaning or something more suited to your meague abilities? Sincerely, Ian Black". Well, thanks for that Ian. Jolly nice of you to be back in touch, though my memory of our purported previous meeting has sadly faded. Glad I was able to provide some mirth. You're right that writing about Saddam's hanging before it happened was not my finest hour. It was one of those tricky journalistic challenges when no matter how much you hedge and speculate, the reality will always mischievously diverge from the finely-turned piece one filed. Thankfully, my industrious on-line colleagues helped me out and history now records an updated version, though the doomed dictator remains forever hooded in the headline. Hey, ho. I Googled Ian using his email address and it appears he is a "Scotsman living in China". A couple of years back, he wanted us "all to know that the courage of the Canadian forces in WW2 will never be forgotten and always appreciated. Thank you and God Bless." Nice thought, Ian. For some writers, like Joel Stein, all this interaction can be a bit much. Not me. Really, some people have said much worse. As Colin Berry reports, there can be the odd snafu with comments - but please, stick at it. I even emailed Ian back. Strangely, he hasn't been in touch again. Maybe he thinks that feedback only works one way. Update: The situation with the Saddam hanging illustrated that "old media" difficulty of the fixed newspaper deadline and the complications of writing across time zones. It was 5am on the morning of Friday December 29th in Washington, 10am in UK and midday in Baghdad when it began to look like Saddam was going to hang imminently. By our deadline of 6pm London time (1pm Washington, 9pm Baghdad), we had to finalise the stories for a paper that many people would read after - possibly - Saddam had hanged. Or by then Saddam might have been given a stay of execution. Or he might have been just about to hang. Another possibility was he would have been hanged but no details at all would have been released. Clearly, whatever happened this was a huge story that everyone would want to know every detail of. Much of the interest would focus on on the ghoulish procedure for the hanging. The Iraqi authorities had already carried out dozens of these and there had been briefings from US and Iraqi officials on what would happen - he would be hooded, dressed in a boiler suit, probably hanged at Camp Cropper etc etc. One of the three pieces the foreign desk asked me to write was on how the hanging was likely to happen, based on the briefings and the previous hangings. That's what I wrote, making crystal clear that the piece was written before the hanging. Saddam hanged just before dawn in Baghdad on December 30th, the early hours in UK and the evening of the 29th in Washington. Of course, we now know from Saddam's YouTube moment that the hanging was a shambles, that almost every normal Iraqi practice was departed from and virtually every aspect of planned procedure was violated. And there was my before-the-event piece being read on the morning of Saturday December 30th in UK illustrating just how differently things had turned out. "


Posted by Toby Harnden at 09 Jan 07 08:49


Toby Harnden: biographical details: Toby Harnden has been The Daily Telegraph's United States Editor since October 2006. He lives in Washington DC with his wife Cheryl and their dog Finn, a native of Belfast. Toby was previously Chief Foreign Correspondent for The Sunday Telegraph. He first joined The Daily Telegraph in 1994 and has been its Ireland Correspondent, Washington Bureau Chief and Middle East Correspondent. He is the author of Bandit Country: The IRA & South Armagh (1999). An archive of his work is at http://www.tobyharnden.com/, and he can be contacted at toby.harnden@telegraph.co.uk.

ed: Here are the first 35 or so comments:

Ian Black's comment shown in red.

Well done!!
I totally agree with Mr Black's earthy comments about you!! I have, thankfully, never had the dubious pleasure of meeting you, but the pomposity displayed in your blog indicates that your head is, as the Australians are apt to say, clearly buried deeply up your arse.I, too, read the appalling story you filed (by your own admission) even before Saddam had been executed. I don't think many people (if any) would take your jottings seriously henceforth.
Dr Jane Devonport at 09 Jan 2007 09:53

Your neck on the block
Dear Mr Harnden: I am sitting on the train fron Tunbridge Wells heading for central London, idling away an hour or two until I reach my office.Ir would appear that your somewhat waspish, vindictive response to a reader has stirred up a veritable hornet's nest, one that has sent you springing into action on defensive mode grade one!!I did not see the report referred to by the readers above (although two fellow travellers say they did read it and they tell me they do remember it well because of its apparent shortcomings).Did you never hear the phrase "If you can't take a joke, don't join" during your National Service in the navy?When you get something wrong, as you apparently did, caution should be the order of the day.Wind your neck in Sunny Jim, and pray that the boss has had a good New Year or else the noose that sent yon Saddam to his doom may tighter round YOUR rubber neck.Metaphorically speaking, of course.
Gregory Kemp at 09 Jan 2007 10:52

I know how you feel Toby
As a published writer myself, I know full well that for every fan that writes to tell you they love your work, there are five unhinged idiots ready and waiting in the wings to make your life hell. The world is full of loonies with nothing better to do with their day than fire off idiotic comments to other people, such as "Dr Devenport" in the previous post. If she doesn't take your "jottings" seriously then why is she reading your work in the first place?Don't despair Toby. There are lots of people out there that enjoy reading your work. Don't let the lunatic minority ruin your day.
Thomas Bosch at 09 Jan 2007 11:05

Missing the point
Mr Bosch appears to miss the point. Your earlier respondents seem to have been complaining about the flagrant inaccuracy of your offerings. Is Bosch suggesting that he expects other Telegraph readers to accept any slipshod workmanship which might appear in your newspaper's columns too?
Enzo at 09 Jan 2007 11:30

Ref good journalism
I am a comparatively old hack, having been in the newspaper business for some 40 years. I do not recall having seen - ever - such a pitiful response as the one Toby Harden had the gall to publish on his blog today.Not only did he fail to justify his having filed a story riddled with half-truths and downright errors.He had the temerity to defend it by referring (in his reply to Mr Black)to the story thus, and I quote:"You're right that writing about Saddam's hanging before it happened was not my finest hour. It was one of those tricky journalistic challenges when no matter how much you hedge and speculate, the reality will always mischievously diverge from the finely-turned piece one filed".Tricky journalistic challenges? The only "tricky challenge" I ever learned as a cub reporter on the Dundee Courier was this one - GET IT RIGHT!!We don't want hedging and speculation in the stories we pay for when we buy out Daily Telegraph each morning.We were not ALL born yesterday, Mr Harnden, and you'd do well to remember that your audience is both wide and experienced and unwilling to tolerate poor work.As you say in truth - "not your finest hour".
Stuart Knight at 09 Jan 2007 11:59

Surprised
Mr Harnden - you seem to be earning yourself an unenviable reputation for below-par reporting since you arrived in the USA a few weeks ago.I was most surprised to see your admission today that you had apparently made up or otherwise manufactured the account of Saddam Hussein's execution which I read online on the day he died.
Carlos Riccardi at 09 Jan 2007 12:07

Saddam's death
I do not usually write to newspapers, but I have to say I was very disappointed to read your message referring to reader Ian Black.If what you write about his message to you is correct, then you ought to have kept that information to yourself.By publishing his comments on the blog (did he give you permission to do so) you have exposed yourself to ridicule.If he did indeed refer to you by these rude epithets, Mr Black may have been incautious.But the fact that your initial story on Saddam Hussein's hanging in Bagdhad was wrong in significant detail does you absolutely no credit.Like your correspondent Enzo, I do not understand what Mr Bosch was talking about.If I want to read fiction I will go to John Le Carre - and not to the news pagers of the London Daily Telegraph.Most sincerely, F. L. Nitzsche
Frans at 09 Jan 2007 12:17

Your blog
To: Toby Harnden From: Helmut JohannsonDear Sir - it brightened my morning to read the contents of your blog today.Did you really make up all that descriptive detail of the Iraqi dictator's last moments?I agree with Mr Nitzsche's comments about fiction a-la-John Le Carre and what we expect from Telegraph reporters in the field.Where did you learn your craft (if I may call it that?).Maybe you ought to go back to night school or spend more time with your dog and less in front of the computer screen.
Helmut Johansson at 09 Jan 2007 12:38

Ho Ho Ho

I rest my case, Harnden, and stand by everything I said (and which you quoted without permission - always a risky line of attack as you are now discovering to your cost).Happy New Year and bon voyage on your journey home from the USA, which should not be long in coming if there's any journalistic justice left.People in glass houses should never throw stones - something else you seem to have forgotten, if ever you learned it.
Ian Black at 09 Jan 2007 12:45

Your blog
I'd prefer a grovelling apology to your inadequate (and snide) justification for the story from which you are now attempting to distance yourself.I know little about journalism.But I do know that Saddam's execution had massive international interest.But the fact is that you broke every rule in the book by filing something riddled with holes without either checking its veracity or having it held back for confirmation.The fact that you are now trying to blame your foreign desk staff holds no water with me, old fruit.Did you not have the guts to tell them to wait until you had all the facts at your fingertips?
Arthur Leonard Port at 09 Jan 2007 13:01

Mr Ian Black
Dear Mr Toby Harnden - I would like to have the e-mail address of Mr Ian Black. I believe he is a very experienced British foreign correspondent now working in China, where I now live and study.I met him at a seminar on international relations in Beijing two years ago, but have lost his address.If this is the same gentleman, he is a Scotsman who has been visiting my country for over 30 years and who has an excellent reputation in the People's Republic of China.We read the Daily Telegraph on-line here very often, and like very much the work of Mr Richard Spencer.But I must say many of us are sorely ashamed of the fact that you wrote lies in at least one of your reports.Shame on you Mr Toby!!
Lin Bin at 09 Jan 2007 13:24

Grubby Grub Street
May I say how heartened I am to read the comments addressed to Toby Harnden in today's blogs.It has not gone un-noticed in our officers' mess here in Baghdad (I am a Special Forces officer and Grey Thompson is therefore not my real name) that your so-called Washington Editor lied in his work.But I speak for many of my colleagues of all ranks when I say that Harnden's admission justifies our total rejection of the claims of accuracy and impartiality in the reporting of many American and foreign journalists working in Iraq.
Colonel Grey Thompson at 09 Jan 2007 13:39

Also ashamed
Mr Harnden - I am also a student in China (Inner Mongolia) and I, too, am ashamed that you have written lies in a well-respected newspaper.We not always believe what we read in the People's Daily, but we have come to depend upon the foreign press for the truth.You have done much to disillusion us here.
Penny at 09 Jan 2007 13:47

Ian Black's comments
From: Martin Allison in HanoiI am delighted to see that many of your readers are hitting back at Toby Harnden for his totally unacceptable explanation.You asked for us to "make your day", and by golly I imagine you've had much more than you bargained for.As another of your correspondents said, we were not born yesterday and are both experienced AND discerning when it comes to judging what we read.How many other Brtish nationals made the same gaffe as Harnden, if any?
Martin Allison at 09 Jan 2007 13:56

Take heed

I am a journalism student currently travelling in Asia, and have just come across this man's blog.Mr Harnden would seem to have an awfully high opinion of himself, one that is wholly unjustified, in my humble opinion.He should take heed of what readers say about him.
Serena McKenzie at 09 Jan 2007 14:01

Doggy style
Talk about dog eating dog!! Nothing like the feathers of a bumptious journo being ruffled.Cool it, Harnden. You can dish it out but it seems you can' take it (criticism, that is).You're not in the navy now, you know!!
Alastair Wilson at 09 Jan 2007 14:12

In agreement
From the Reverend Marcus SchultzWhilst I may deplore (mildly) the language your correspondent Ian Black is said to have used in writing to you, I must tell you that I agree with his sentiments wholeheartedly.
Marc Schultz at 09 Jan 2007 14:41

Commiserations
I feel sorry for you Mr Harnden - you must feel awful to read these messages of condemnation.But remember this - you brought their ridicule down on your own head, not just by lying in print, but by then boasting about it on today's blog.Let that be a lesson to you.
Martin at 09 Jan 2007 15:01

Good Grief!
Dear Readers - get a grip,PLEASE! To listen to your comments, you would think Mr. Harnden caused an innocent man to be hanged!! Journalists, it appears are not allowed to make mistakes, much less to own up to them. The personal attacks on Mr. Harnden seem to be coming from some sort of a nasty readership that makes me wonder who these mean-spirited souls are. Accusing Mr. Harnden of being pompous? Projection, perhaps....?
Cynthia Stone at 09 Jan 2007 15:08

Back! Back!
I sense a braying mob here, rounding on Mr Harnden. As with any should mob, they should disperse and regain some grip on their reason and personal conduct.I saw the Saddam story online while in Iraq the morning after Saddam's execution and thought, 'Whoops!'. It was inaccurate and left TH with some egg on his face. There was a lot of other rubbish written, the result of frenzied speculation by Iraqi and international media.But before we all put the boot in, let's ask whether any of those contributors with any journalistic experience can genuinely say they never got caught out in print. I think not.The personal nature of Mr Black's attacks on TH suggest a sour, dour individual who should get out more.I have met Toby Harnden, seen him at work, reviewed his writing against what I have witnessed myself and read a large volume of his work from N. Ireland, Iraq and the US. I rate him very highly as a journalist and will continue to read his work with as much good faith as one should invest in any report.If you don't like his writing there's plenty more to read elsewhere.
Cyrus Williams at 09 Jan 2007 15:23

Nasty vindictive readers
This illustrates why reporters should not be required to do blogs. They are honest about the limits of their trade and this is what happens.
Chris Fielding at 09 Jan 2007 15:36

Grow Up Mr Black
So Mr Black and his team of cooperative cohorts clearly don't like Mr. Harnden...Roger that! Now can we please get back to some legitimate opinions, or is this just going to be a forum for Mr. Black to vent old naval rivalries?
Jamie at 09 Jan 2007 15:38


What exactly did he do wrong?!

This is a reporter who is feeding the beast, as reporters call their newspaper, and described events as they stood when he when he was writing.I don't think he had any need to apologize.The problem he had is the age-old one of deadlines. And now the new one of foul-mouthed embittered old soaks resentful of their lot in life being able to vent online.
Benjamin Ambrose at 09 Jan 2007 16:01

No need for blogs
I do tend to agree with Chris Fielding that, in the case of Mr Harnden certainly, the use of blogs has backfired very badly on him.Harnden's assignment is to investigate and report the news from the USA (accurately) and to spend less time airing his views in blogs such as the one which has caused him such embarrassmment today.
Carnation at 09 Jan 2007 16:03

The way one expresses oneself...
...Reveals ones true colours. Mr Black's use of the c-word says all I need to know about the man.
Ari W at 09 Jan 2007 16:11

Consider the source
The accusations here against Mr. Harnden, seem to be that he 'lied'! In fact I believe he made it clear that the article on Saddam's execution, was written before the fact. By admitting his error, was this "boasting"? These personal attacks on the journalist, are to me, lower, than Harnden's journalistic error.
M. Shannon at 09 Jan 2007 16:15

sad
so sad that Britons think this abuse is justified. I read Mr Harnden regularly and he is as honest and insightful as they come.
JIM SNYDER at 09 Jan 2007 16:18

"lying"
The word I most object to is "lying" - bandied around willy nilly these days. This is a person who is telling us how, for reasons outside his control, an article was not as good as he would have liked. That shows he is conscientious and I find it interesting to hear about how newspaper errors can come about.
Margaret Broadbent at 09 Jan 2007 16:26

Fair comment
Has Mr Benjamin Ambrose (if that is, indeed, his real name) ever spent an evening in the company of journalists at any watering hole where the species congregates? Foul-mouthed language and a tendency to violence as the witching hour approaches is par for the course as your older staff members will doubtless remember.To accuse any of the correspondents who have contributed to this current debate of bad language, bad taste or of being "embittered old soaks resentful of their lot in life" is, to put it mildly, rather stretching a point.Let us not forget that if Toby Harnden had kept his mouth firmly shut in the first place we'd have all forgotten that he filed a story full of more holes than the proverbial watering can.
Donna Krupa at 09 Jan 2007 16:27

Profanity!!
Regardless of what anyone thinks of Harnden, I find it indefensible to send emails using profanity as a way of relaying personal opinions about the media. Black's crass manner of expressing himself says it all, really.
Alex Rathbone at 09 Jan 2007 16:30

phew
Most of you should be reading "Lunatics Today" instead of the Telegraph. Have any of you read T.Harnden's book or his Spectator articles? He is one of the most prolific and clever correspondents on Fleet Street.
Farmer Ged at 09 Jan 2007 16:49

His point is proved!
The point is that in this electronic age this is the type of thing journalists now have to deal with. Toby is man enough to bring it out into the open and then the nutters go and prove the point he was originally making.
You vilifiers totally miss the point at 09 Jan 2007 17:06

Take them on!
Good to see a reporter engaging with critics and showing them up for what they are. An email like that is totally indefensible.
Jan Volk at 09 Jan 2007 17:20

Saddam
Can we please return to the subject of Saddam and whether he deserved the manner of his demise? Mr Harnden actually highlights here how bizarrely it turned out in relation to how we had been told it would be done.
John Taylor at 09 Jan 2007 17:27

Substance please!
Mr Taylor is right. Whenever there is a serious, thoughtful subject on a blog everyone ignores it. Yet then gangs of people rush to defend someone as potty mouthed and vicious as Mr Black, who made no contribution at all to the sum of human knowledge (or kindness).
Karen at 09 Jan 2007 17:43

Dishing the dirt
How refreshing to see readers taking the opportunity to let newsmen (and women) know what we think when they screw up on a story!!Some of you seem to blame Mr Black for this whole debacle, when it seems to me his initial correspondence with Harnden was, if I am not mistaken, of a private nature in the form of an e-mail. Perhaps as a "prank" the recipient decided to make this correspondence public on his weblog, with disastrous results for Mr Harnden.What's so special about journalists, anyway? We are daily exposed to their opinions and stories which, as we know all too well, are not always based upon truth.So good on ya, Ian Black, lay into the blighterand let's have a lot more of this kind of reaction to mealy-mouthed hacks like the Telegraph's man in Washington!!
Summer at 09 Jan 2007 19:46

Copying stopped at this point ( having got interested in posts on the Apple iPhone).


ed: the entire 84 comments, including those not shown here, as well as Toby Harnden's original piece ( produced belatedly as a comment) were posted by handyblogman on the Guardian's OrganGrinder blog. I had alerted this site earlier in the day to the fact that Toby Harnden's blog had been "pulled". They were grateful for the tip, and in their news update provided a link to this site, which set the hit counter whirring. In fact over 1000 hits were recorded in the subsequent 12 hour period, from midday to midnight, over 6 times the peacetime figure.


But I decided to enter the fray later, under a pseudonym ( Non-blown-away sceptic) chosen earlier that day. Odd name, you might think, but it was related to the title of another post on the subject of Apple's iPhone, entitled "iPhone blows even the sceptics away" (Catherine Elsworth).

Here are my four main contributions (there were some later minor ones too). The second one resulted in Tony Harnden finally releasing the text of his initial "preview" story, which for reasons best known to himself he had withheld at the beginning, making it difficult to judge whether or not Ian Black had a case.


First posting : Separate issues

Why can't we just accept there are three entirely separate issues here, each of which is important.

1. Toby Harnden's reporting of the Saddam execution in the past, instead of the future tense .

2. Ian Black's lying in wait for years for a fellow journalist to make a mistake before revealing himself as someone from Harnden's previous existence. An unpleasant individual, with unpleasant language, confirming many of our worst stereotypes of the journalist's craft/trade (once called a profession).

3. Harnden's extraordinary decision to use his blog in a quality paper to "out" someone who had the temerity to send an unflattering email.

Why could Harnden have not started his report with " In a few minutes, if all goes according to plan, and barring any last-minute reprieves, Saddam Hussein will step onto the gallows ..... Thus will end the life of one of the world's most notorious ..... Will he be allowed to decline the customary hood .... ?

My own belief, for what it's worth, is that neither individual comes out of this with credit, but for entirely different reasons.

But it's the first which is the crucial issue: the reporting an event as if it had already taken place, when it had not.

What has happened here has served simply to compound the initial error, bringing it to the attention of everyone, when previously only a small observant minority might have spotted it.

Was the previous generation of naval officers taught how to shoot themselves in the foot ?

ed. The Telegraph moderators deleted the final sentence !

Second posting: Clarification still needed

Deanna. I did read Toby's original blog, in which he refers to the original report that caused him such embarrasment, but to which he gives no copy or link, merely to say he never used the past tense.

Two points: why would Ian Black have been so scathing if it had simply been a case of the Telegraph's deadline being before the execution? Are executions in China always coordinated with newspapers' deadlines ?

Where's the sin in writing about a likely scenario, ahead of the actual event, as long as that's made clear ? Has Ian Black never been called upon to do that ? Does he perhaps live in an ideal world, out there in China ? If so, why does he need to use gutter language ?
Second point: if you go to the end of the later updated report that Toby does cite, there's a link to another report that reads like an earlier version, under the byline of Toby Harnden (Washington) and Graeme Baker

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=AH2ITOROFYMQLQFIQMFSFGGAVCBQ0IV0?xml=/news/2006/12/30/wsaddam30.xml

Title: Saddam: the end

"Hussein was hanged early today for his crimes against humanity.

The former dictator of Iraq was led to the gallows in Baghdad's fortified Green Zone, which houses his former presidential palace, before being executed without ceremony in front of Iraqi and American officials...... "

Is this the report that the Man- with- the- Score- to- Settle read, replete with its past tenses ? Or is there, as Toby said, an even earlier one that avoids the past tense. If so, why doesn't Toby provide a link or copy, and enlighten us on why's he supposed to have egg on his face (apart from the incorrect reference to a hood) ?


Third posting : Clear winner, unsavoury contest

Where are the "inaccuracies", Ian Black ? Or do you use that word loosely to mean differences in detail from events which the writer was attempting to visualise ?

If you were "chortling for hours" over a fellow-journalist being compromised by the clock and time-zones - through no fault of his own - then it shows you up for what you are. You are a petty-minded individual, harbouring a long term grudge, unable to move on, unable to make your point eloquently.

But Toby Harnden was perhaps out of order in using his blog to hit back in the way he did, divulging the contents of a private email without permission. As it happens, I had one from him shortly before Christmas. There was a standard message at the end from the Telegraph's legal department, warning against unauthorised publication of its contents, which I naturally respected.

Match to Harnden, despite throwing away a game or two, and antagonising spectators with his tactics.


Fourth posting: When was the future tense abolished ?

Seriously, some of you folk, is this really the first time in your lives that you have encountered one of those " Here's how it's likely to happen stories" ?

Did you really fail to spot the future tenses ?Does every article in this genre of reporting that tries to visualise an event that clearly hasn't yet happened - a fact of life, born of the rigid newspaper deadline - need to carry a health warning ? Like: "Stop. Read on at your peril. Beware concealed future tenses. Because actual events, when they occur, may not correspond with every detail you see here."

Sorry about the sarcasm, but if anyone knows of a better way of dealing with those unable to grasp what is self-evident, do please let us know.


Some afterthoughts from this blogger:

Having followed the thread closely (and contributed under a pseudonym) it seems to me that it's all a storm in a teacup, and that whilst Harnden's handling of criticism has lacked finesse, his professional credentials as a reporter at the time of of Saddam Hussein's (then) imminent execution did not seriously depart from normal journalistic practice. To meet his deadlines, he had to visualise the likely sequence of events, based on precedent and intelligent guesswork. It's what has been called a preview report.